That one statement probably turned Norman Rockwell and Lord Baden-Powell over in their graves!
It has infuriated thousands of foresters, forest scientists and scout supporters that the BSA has been attacked for actually living up to their conservation pledge by using sound forest management practices in most if not all the harvests. Many of these forestry professionals grew up under the influence of the Boy Scouts of America and are now leaders in BSA.
The Hearst group accuses the BSA of following the money and "for the love of a different kind of green: cash". Hearst insists that the BSA continues to "use revenues from logging or land sales to make up for funding lost because of the organization's controversial bans on gays and atheists from membership and employment rolls". Hearst presents BSA as a bigoted organization, a forest resource exploiter and a partner in shady real estate deals to fund salaries and property upkeep.
The top five abusing councils Hearst lists are Philmont Scout Ranch National Council with 10,092 acres logged, Cascade Pacific Council with 4,496 acres, Inland Northwest Council with 1,197 acres, Pacific Skyline Council with 942 acres and Chief Seattle Council with 937 acres. Several BSA council executives are on record as having said they did not follow existing forest management plans and were "encouraged" to cut trees for cash-flow.
Say it ain't so, Joe!
Comments
1st The council owns that land, heaven high and hell deep. It’s purpose is for raising trees and earning money.
2nd I don’t believe the judgement of a pandering newspaper editor over the schooled judgement of the Foresters.
3rd The management plan is there as a guideline, not a noose around the owner’s neck.
4th Where are your children tonight?
It’s my opinion that if Hearst can’t do any better than this, they should shut their doors.
Moose muffins.
Hearst has gone over to the dark side, an Al Gore outfit.
As a member of the Cascade Pacific Council I am confused as to how the Hearst papers determined that nearly 4500 acres were logged by the council from 1990 to the present. The total acerage owned by the council is just over 3000 acres and anyone who has been to any of the camps knows that they have not been completely logged one and a half times in the last 18 years. One thing that was shared with the reporters, but not mentioned in their article is the fact theat the council has a very strong tree plant program in partnership with ReTree International which has planted nearly 3 million trees over the same time period.
I believe it’s now coming to light that Hearst Newspapers “cooked-the-books” for their “investigations” of Chainsaw Scouting. See and .
Also see
(Sorry!) Also, Chief Seattle Council responds to Seattle newspaper’s falsified pictures and data at http://seattlebsa.org/News/SeattlePI-Response.pdf
Hearst is a large timber land owner in Northern California. They cut thousands of acres a year. Trees in excess of 48 inches on the stump by the truck loads.
Talk about the kettle calling the pot black.
The gay agenda strikes again. Wholesome family training is the target, not the logging. Let’s find the orientation of the author of this “study.” Quit hiding and hitting in the name of conservation when the real target is those who do not foster and support the gay lifestyle!
it’s their land and their business! i really don’t care what the scouts do on their privately owned land. and i was a scout and i had a great time as a kid i loved the outdoors and the scout master were other kids fathers who gave a damn about youth learning some basic values. and the pinko communist progressives of today want to destroy this organization because they don’t allows gay men to sleep in tents with young boys. hello? would you progressives allow your 12 old boy to sleep in the tent of a gay man? doubtful, but you want other peoples kids to do so? UP YOURS you limousine liberals! clear cuts bring new life into a forest that helps feed wild animals you idiots! and limited clear cuts are healthy mind your own fucking business and celebrate diversity!
cut it down!
i agree with Doug find out who did this bogus study and i bet he is a pole smoker trying to discredit the boy scouts any way he can do a little more research and 50 bucks says he is a card carrying member of NAMBLA + THE ACLU !
I doubt that anyone who owns timber land has not taken moeny for their trees. I believe that others are right about the agenda of the Hurst corp. and the reporters they employ. One other thought would be just how much the reporter(s) actually know about the boyscouts, I doubt that they were ever in the boyscouts or really know anything about the organization past what they have read and made up in their own minds. If they want to holler wolf then they need to get out of the logging business themselves before they start slinging accusations.
Yeah, right…
If you believe Hearst, I’ve got some prime mountain top property near New Orleans you might be interested in, too.
The BSA’s conservation philosophy, policies and programs are among the best in the world, emphasisizing responsible, shared utilization of resources. Clearcutting is not necessarily bad, and in some cases is the best method available for ensuring planned reforestation. I am confident that if the BSA authorized clearcutting a stand, it was because that was the best option from a conservation and forest management option.
I believe Hearst has an agenda concerning the BAS, and it has nothing to do with conservation.
Been taught that there were 2 methods of havesting : 1. selective thinning with natural regeneration and 2. clear cutting in checkerboard sections with manual seedling planting. Sounds like BSA elected 2nd option, which in some ways is closer to “Mother Nature” who burns an area clean. In either event, it sounds like much ado about nothing. Hasn’t BSA been big in reforestation for years?
Wow! Doug and Tommy turn a discussion on a newspaper corporation expressing their opinion (they’re still allowed to do that …right?) about a forestry issue into an attack on “the gay lifestyle”! You want to know the “orientation” of the author?! You’re serious, right?
I thought most of the discussions on this forum were from mature, professionals interested in a sincere exchange of ideas.
“Pole smoker”? Are you kidding me? What other groups of “different” people can you blame? Why don’t you just throw the atheists under the bus while you’re at it. I’m sure they’re behind this travesty of expressing an opinion on something they disagree with. How un-American?
Lets not despoil these trees, lets stop turning them into newsprint, filled with lies, distortions and toxic ink. Let expose the waste of natural resources that disposable newspapers represent.
The responses directly from the Boy Scout leadership linked above speak for themselves. Heck, the picture of the clear cut published in the article wasn’t even on BSA property! It was from a timber company! These newspapers are getting desperate as their revenues shrink (heading to zero). Glad they have no credibility, welcome to the internet age…
If Hearst is so concerned about the BSA’s cutting of Tree’s to raise funds put your money where your mouth is donate, donate, donate, to an organization that helps the average boy and young man.
If you want to support an organization that allows Homosexuals leaders and children to camp and have activities good luck to you. This is a free country start or support that organization. Don’t try and tear down an organization which is largely supported by Churches, Temples, Mosques, and service organizations that have a value system that is different from yours. We can in the United States coexist with different belief systems peacefully and at times separately without hurting anyone. Unless you make an issue of it and take it personally, do you need to accept the way I choose to live as a heterosexual to validate me? Of course not!
The opposite is also true we live in a free country that has different BELIEFS! Beliefs is key, you believe that homosexuality is OK. And that is your right! But remember everyone has rights to believe or not to.
My faith (belief) says different, is your intent to eliminate freedom of religion? Because then we cease to be a free country, that supports the rights of all people to believe or not believe in something.
Respectfully,
Eagle 1981
Thanks for bringing this to our attention.
Jeffie: Hearst never meant to write about logging at all. Read the article. …use revenues from logging to make up for funding lost because of the organizations ban on gays and atheists…” Hearst presents BSA as a bigoted organization… Could Hearst’s agenda be more clear? Not about logging. Just another hide and hit tactic against any who stand in the way of the gay!
Dougie: He who protests too much may have something to hide. Three words: Reverend Ted Haggard. I rest my case.
January 30, 2009
In response to the recent article in the Seattle Post Intelligencer and on behalf of the Executive Board of the Chief Seattle Council, I would like to clarify a few items as well as point out several significant inaccuracies.
The very large photo that is identified as a clear cut of Camp Parsons in Brinnon, WA (Thursday, January 29, 2009, page A7) is not actually our property, nor do we have any affiliation with the logging project identified in that photo. The property pictured does belong to Rayonier Timber, they own the property adjacent to Camp Parsons.
In addition to the picture, the inset graphic indicates that 937 acres have been logged by the Chief Seattle Council since 1990. Our records do not support that number in any way and our documentation indicates a number less than 300 acres over that time period-less than one third of the number stated in the article.
The photo depiction of a clear cut and statistical inaccuracies are a blatant misrepresentation of the timber harvests related to the Chief Seattle Council and we respectfully request a retraction to be printed in the Seattle Post-Intelligencer immediately.
The article failed to mention that diseased and rotted trees had become a safety concern after four successive years of major property destruction at Camp Pigott and Camp Brinkley. The timber sold was used for pulp-refuting the suggestion that these trees were removed to secure windfall profits for the council budget.
Despite the claims asserted in the recent articles, no revenues from timber harvests were utilized to grow the operating budget or pay for salaries and compensation of any employees of the Chief Seattle Council. Timber harvests have been conducted in accordance with our long range forest management plan which was developed several years ago to ensure sustainable forests for all our camp properties and the safety of the youth and adults who utilize them. This plan was developed by an outside professional forest management firm.
Throughout our history, the BSA has had a fundamental commitment to conservation and responsible land management decisions are consistent with these values. Indeed, logging some of our timber was a virtual obligation, since the alternative would have been to permit rotting and downed trees to accumulate and create an unacceptable risk for property damage and injury to Scouts.
We are proud of the council’s record on fiscal stewardship, land management, and program delivery. Every decision made by our board has been in the best interest of the tens of thousands of families who benefit from Scouting each year through programs and properties maintained by our organization.
Our Scout Executive and CEO, C. Bradford Allen, is a 32 year tenured career Scout professional and our community is fortunate to have someone of his experience and character leading our Scouts. Allen has been employed with the Chief Seattle Council for two years and three months. He was hired after a national search by a selections committee made up of local business and community leaders who each serve as officers on the volunteer board of directors. The salary and benefits for all of our staff are consistent with national standards and pay guidelines and are appropriate for one of the 20 largest councils in the country.
The Chief Seattle Council served over 55,000 youth and adult volunteers in the Puget Sound area throughout 2008. Nearly 6,000 of these Scouts come from low income communities and are financially supported by the board and our donors. For the seventh consecutive year, our council has enjoyed membership growth in our traditional programs of Cub Scouting, Boy Scouting and Venturing. Over 9,000 youth enjoyed the programs offered at our council camps and 403 local young men earned the rank of Eagle Scout (Scouting’s highest rank) this past year.
It is also a point of great pride that in one of the toughest economic years in decades, donations from individual donors were up last year-with more than 10,312 local individuals contributing to the Friends of Scouting Campaign in 2008.
Despite the challenges of a tough economy, Chief Seattle Council ended 2008 with a balanced budget and is forecasting a balanced budget again in 2009 because of strong fiscal stewardship. Most local councils are facing serious economic stress and uncertainty, and so earlier this month, the board decided to hold all council salaries at current levels. This is a proactive decision that we believe will allow our council to maintain the highest level of program services to young people in our communities.
We are proud of our organization’s record on youth services, membership growth, and fiscal stewardship. As a volunteer board, we work diligently to fulfill the mission of the Boy Scouts of America accordingly.
We are proud of our organization’s record on youth services, membership growth and fiscal stewardship. As a volunteer board, we work diligently to fulfill the mission of the Boy Scouts of America accordingly.
What a poorly done hit piece. No wonder the newspaper is suffering financially. What about the way California manages its forests by letting thousands of acres die from beetle infestations making enormous areas of fuel load. No don’t cut them down, let them burn half of California down when they ignite. Kudos to the Scouts of managing the forests on their properties intelligently.
Wow…if there were no logging at all, there would be no paper.
And if there were no paper, there would be no Hearst…
(Of course, the way things are going, BSA is likely to outlast Hearst.)
Well I am a scout and though the neswpapers may go to an extreme they are on to a serious problem. The Chief Scout Executive for the country makes a whopping 1.6 million. The executive for the nations 300 councils don’t do too shabby either often pulling in between 200-400gs. These councils and their big golf fundraisers and fancy events are mainly just paying themselves. Scout camps are run on a shoe string budget and are expected to pay for themselves by charging campers fees. Camp staff often have to buy supplies out of their own salaries. If you get involved in District or camp staffing or anything above the ordinary scout or parent level you find yourself mired in politics secrecy and totalitarianism. The Council members are rich and well connected. People can be excommunicated for saying one wrong thing and any discussion or debate or admittance of wrongdoing is stifled. The climate is religious conservative white and very Republican if you aren’t those those things its best to keep your mouth shut. At Camp Pigott in the Seattle area every last tree was cut down and sold, the camp looks like ground zero of Hiroshima not a tree standing they were sold for millions. The justification, insurance companies made council do it. The Executives know their salary is based on performance and performance is based on money. The scouts of various troops are out there doing their own thing and they all have their own uniqie character. Many of them could care less about the witch hunt of gays and atheists don’t try to make scouting Christian and aren’t a sort of Bush youth Republican training ground. The camps continue on run by mostly very dedicated staff and volunteers although even at camps there are mean and sometimes violent directors that abuse their power and go unpunished. Overall the ultra right wing philosphy infects scouting at its higher levels, rich people are the best CEOs are heroes and deserved to be butt kissed and have stuff named after them. Making money and scouts is a business attitudes dominate as well as a stubborn desire to make some political statement and try to define scouts as private even though its size and historical close ties to government make that more myth than reality. Like I said Hearst went over the top, but someone needed to say something and get people talking on the outside of the scouting machine. You would be hard pressed to find an organization more undemocratic and sadly losing its way. The truth is if all the big fat, they usually are, scout executives and their fancy meetings their camp inspections where they fly in on seaplanes sipping cocktails and the exravegant lifestyle some of them lead off of what is supposed to be a wholesome youth leadership program just disappeared scouting would go on as they only provide a hurdle of paperwork and usually a store to buy merit badges. Well I guess you could do that online. Without all that bureocracy scouts at the lower levels would go on none the worse probably better